davcos

I remember trying to start my Saito 120 for the first time, by myself, in the garage. Had fuel, had glow, just would not start. I had the throttle position reversed... It finally started and I had my hands full! What a surprise! The only other time I had a !QUOT!first!QUOT! hard start, I went back to the manual and started over with the recommended procedure.

Is fuel comming out of the exhaust when you turn it over?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Dang! Turn my back for five minutges and everybody rings is!

Rummy:

MA is Model Aviation, the AMA rag. Guess you dion't get it.

Lee custom Engines
10112 Woodward Ave,
Sunland, CA 91049
(818) 352-3766

Saito glow plug thread repair for $17.50, you take it apart and reassemble. Have him do it all for $30.
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Jack:

My LHS sells Omega 15% for $12.60/gallon out the door - tax included.
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michael9054:

I've put you in as member number 228. Welcome.
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khawkins:

I've put you in as number 229.

The Saito engines will not have any compression to speak of when the throttle is shut, and also until the throttle is opened you could have a problem getting the fuel up to the carb. If you still don't have fuel feed with the throttle open, ande being sure the needle valve is open about four turns, (for first start) then pull the needle out completely - you must have something clogging the spray bar.

Bill.

lrr

Bill,

In a post awile back, you mentioned that you pull the valve covers, and oil prior to flying. I know you use Dexron ATF for the crankcase after flying, but how about the valve train?

Thanks,

Lee

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Lee:

I just use the ATF for pre-oiling as well. Flyboy Dave says he uses castor oil.

Pretty much your choice.

Bill.

bldrums

Commander Robinson,
Oh , MA, yeah I get that with my AMA membership. Ok, thanks. I'll send it. Id kinda like to open it up and start learning to repair Saitos, but, I've already done enough damage on my own.

Rummy

Chuck381

William Robison,
Hello Sir I ordered and installed a Velocity stack and bru line filter for my Saito 100. I have run a gallon of Omega 15% thru the engine and just made a carb adjustment to the low end idle. I believe that the engine has wore in/broke in enough to start that phase of adjustments. My question is how many hours before I need to look at adjusting the valves?

As I adjusted the low end screw it idled better but what is a good idle speed (with a Tach) I am running Omega 15% Castor/syn, OS F plug and I use Marvel Air Tool oil religiously after any day of engine runs. I can only put the ARO in the vent from the engine since the rest is in a cowl, is that effective enough?

Again thanks for your help Bill I do appreciate it! Have a good day!

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Rum:

Popping the cylinder off is easy, and it's easy to put it back. Pull the carb and intake along with the exhaust and the rocker covers. Undo the four screws holding the cylinder to the crankcase, and then just pull it off. Pop the rockers, keep them and the push rods noted for intake and exhaust sides, out everything but the cylinder in plastic storage bags. Be sure you keep the rubbers for the tops of the push rod tubes. Send the cylinder to C. Lee with a check.

Reassembly is a snap. The bottom of the bore is tapered, with a little care the piston and ring will slide right in. Watch the fitting of the push rod tubes, they have to go on with the cylinder.

The mid block uses solid steel push rods, you'll notice one end is slightly pointed, the other is just rounded. The pointy end goes to the top.

If your valves were set right when you pulled the engine down, and you have put everything back in its original position, you might not even have to adjust the valves.
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Chuck381:

Should the digits not be 158? That is, after all, your Club Saito number. Kidding.

I check the valve lash before the first engine start, and then every 15-20 minutes until things are seated and the clearance holds steady. After that I check them before every flying session, but not with a feeler or dial gauge. I pull the covers to oil the valve gear, with the covers off it's no more bother to feel the lash. Just grab the adjuster screw and see if you have clearance. After you've done it a few times you will be able to feel if it's OK. You should just barely feel any play at the 0.0015-0.002" setting.

The engine is ready to have the idle leaned when it will run consistently with the idle leaned. Seems like I'm saying nothing, it's just that you keep playing with it for the first few hours, and when you don't get any more improvement in the engine run OR the fuel economy, you can leave it alone until you change fuel.

Idle speed is dependent on the fuel and the weight of the prop. If you go with a heavy prop and higher nitro 1800 rpm can be had, but normal 15% fuel and most props 2200 is a good idle speed.

I use a small bottle with a spout for the ARO. After running the engine dry I'll stick the spout in the breather hose, then holding the bottle pointed down turn the engine through a turn or two. As the piston goes up the oil will be drawn in, then coming back down you'll see bubbles in your ARO bottle. Then a 20 second application of your electric starter will spread the oil throughout the inside of the engine, any excess will blow out the vent.

Bill.

zlinacro

Good idea about the club! I love Saito engines! I've acquired a couple OS 4 strokes over the years but let them go with trades. Did I mention I love Saito engines?

I'm looking at buying the 325 radial for my Top Flite Giant P47. I cant seem to find any specs on it anywhere. I need to know the physical measurements. Can anyone help?
Thanks.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

zlinacro:

I have registered you as number 230 in our little club.

Attached is a size chart for the radials, including the FA325R5. It's from the Saito Radials manual. If you'd like a copy you can download it [link=http://www.uavflight.com/saito.htm]here[/link], or send me your email for the manual and Saito Notes.

Bill.

flyuphi

My Feedback: (8)

Hey TW. Maybe you help me out. I have an older 270 twin saito in a Y model Gee Bee. The engine was new and never used. Fired it up to break it in. Ran great for six or so tanks of fuel. Idle was great too. Then the next time I fired it up I would lose the glow plug on the left side facing the engine when I brought it down to an idle. Fussed with the mixture both rich and lean and still seem to lose that left side when bringing it down towards and idle. Tried changing the glow plugs too. It is a FA-270T single carb. Ran it on 15% powermaster fuel. I'm thinking it should be like your 300 saito. But maybe you have two carbs on yours?
I gues my next step is twin on board iginition. If you have any ideas drop me a line.

flyuphi

[email protected]

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The usual procedure is to play with your valve settings. The one that's going out will need to be marginally tighter or loser than the other two.

davcos

I've seen a few people at the field adjusting their valves every time they come out. Are they Pros, idiots or just showing their mechanical skills? (Maybe their valve adjustment schedule just coincides with mine)

davcos

How do you get the image to show up by your post?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Do not use the FAST REPLY button

You need to use the post reply button at the bottom left off this post.

Your editor will then have a "CLICK HERE TO UPLOAD IMAGES" line at the bottom left. It will normally go to your "My Pictures" file.

There is another way. You can right click on a image somewhere, then left click copy image location the put the cursor between the [img] formats that show up when you left click on the image button above this post. But this must be from a site that is always on. It works best with images from your gallery. The picture will show up the same size as they were in your gallery and cannot be made larger or smaller.


[hr]

lrr

Use the "Post Reply" button instead of the Fast Reply window.

Lee

gjeffers

what do you think Bill, are they to far gone?
also one of the lifters if mushroomed a little

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Time for a cam and lifters. You better check the rest of the parts too like the ends of the pushrods and valve adjuster screws. Also the valve keepers and springs.

Looks like alot of rpm and a lot of lash?

khawkins

I asked for help yesterday as my new Saito would not start. After checking the high speed needle, it was fully closed from the factory! the manual said "dont adjust" so I didnt. I assumed it was okay. once I figured this out, the puppy fired right up.

My manual says 2 and a half turns out for break in but I believe everywhere else it says 4 turns. Whats the dealio here? I assume 4 turns (thats what I cranked up up and broke it in on).

Once its broken in, what is the most you you lean it out. Its a Saito 82.

thanks,

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I lean them out enough to find the peak rpm and then richen them back up enough so they just barely start to slow up.

gjeffers

no Jim, not a lot of rpms(8800) and certainly not a lot of lash (adjusted at least every third session), used a 50-50 castor mix too. i have probably 300-400 flights on this and decided to rebuild because of this and decided to replace the bearings before they went bad.already hav ethe bearings comming

i guess ill spend the 30 bucks for the cam and lifters also,am i a tightwad or what

thanks Jim

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I have not personally seen one that bad.

It should run a lot better when you are done.

Enjoy,

Jim

davcos

So you didn't have the trottle reversed eh?

gjeffers

it was actually running well Jim, i just wanted to get the bearings out before they started shredding metal, but you are right, it has to be better when im through

davcos

re: Post 2039 // Speaking of a first startup at full throttle... I can't see inside the carbs of the 182t. After starting the 120 at full throttle, I've always looked inside to make sure if the carb is open or closed. I can't seem to find in the manual which way is which. Is it the same throttle arm motion as all Saito's?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Gary:

Agreement with Jim. I would be highly reluctant to put that cam back in service. Combination of too much lash, lube failure, and/or over speeding the engine.

The tappets in normal service will get a slight ridge turned around the rubbing face, that in itself is no worry, but it keeps you from pulling them out the top on the mid block engines. A light touch with a stone removes the ridge. But when you change the cam you should always put new tappets in at the same time.

And without question replace the valve springs. They get weak, new ones are cheap insurance.
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khawkins:

Initial rich setting on the HS needle varies with the different size engines - the FA-180 starts at five turns. I think I told you three on yours. Anyway, glad you found the problem.
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flyuphi:

On your FA-270T - first be absolutely sure there's no intake leak. Run the engine, preferably on a stand, and drip a light oil on all the intake joints as it is running. You should see and hear a difference if you hit a leak.

But before you start the engine do a very careful valve adjustment, be as precise as you can, setting them all to 0.0015" clearance. You may find your loss of a cylinder goes away.

No leaks and the valves done carefully and it still drops a cylinder? Run it as slowly as you can without having one side quit, then after it has stabilized check the cylinder temperatures. I generally start by opening the clearance on the cold cylinder, in steps of one half thousandth (I said precise!) and rechecking after adjustment. You will notice a change within two or three adjustments. If it's for the better, fine. If not, tighten that side back to 0.0015" clearance and go to the other side. In any case try not to get the clearance more than 0.003" as you start to hammer the cams.

Another point on the twins - they commonly will lose one cylinder at low speed until they are fully broken it.

And flyuphi is on the books as member number 231. Glad to have you.

Bill.